[Sagi listens quietly the whole time, the way he does when he knows he has nothing to contribute. He doesn't immediately react when Hythlo's voice falters, either. His expression only darkens.
When he does speak up, the words come out at least as flat as Hythlo's - but softly, because he deliberately reins them in.]
You killed them. And it didn't save you.
[He isn't judging. It isn't pointed. It wants to point, to bite - how twisted must this home of Hythlo's have been, that a multitude of people just like him would buy into all these justifications, would give up their lives for some cause that didn't even work? And he thinks someplace like that is less traumatic than anywhere else?
But no, something in his heart stops him. That isn't reasonable. Hythlo was alive in the wrong place at the wrong time. It clearly didn't leave him unaffected. Maybe he - like Sagi - just thought he saw a chance to start over here, that turned out not to be there.]
Not killed. Took them, yes. But not killed. Pray believe me when I say I know the difference. [His knuckles whiten as he clenches his hands.] And I would have gladly given my own life, had I been allowed to do so. But--
[He breaks off, shakes his head, tries to continue the explanation.]
It did save us. The rampages stopped. The life returned. But... we wanted to bring our brethren back. That was the point of involving those with the Sight, like myself. The cleaner the separation, the easier it is to restore the soul. That was... why we had to do it. Why I could not give my life. [He brings up a tired hand to his face to rub at his eyes, aware that he's getting sidetracked.] But that is not--not the point. What happened was that the decision many chose to agree with was waiting until enough life had sprung up, and then offer it to Zodiark again so that he might restore those who had given themselves to create him. Many disagreed. And thus... came the first conflict between our people. 'Twas in the aftermath of it that I died.
[Hythlodaeus is aware that he left out many details, but at the same time he feels so utterly drained just trying to talk about it. He falls silent again, staring at nothing, waiting for Sagi's judgement without fear. Whatever it might be, it can't be worse than what he's been subjecting himself to every time he allowed his thoughts to wander back to the past.]
If your world-saving vision means deluding people into throwing away their lives for cheap, you've gone wrong somewhere.
[Sagi doesn't look up, but nor does he skip a beat. His attempt at keeping his tone of voice dispassionate definitely slips here. It's personal. Not to him, just to someone very close.]
[Hythlo steeples his hands before him, brings them close to his face, staring ahead of him intently.]
Deluding, you say. Aye, I daresay the people of this world would have needed to deceive each other to achieve something. Every life, every life offered was given willingly, do you understand? We truly believed this would be our salvation, and it was. What would you have had us done? Look for another solution? While our cities burned, while our children died? You would have had us face our people and tell them we had no morally simple solution, please sit back and watch each other be devoured by the monsters of the Final Days?!
[Hythlo's own voice slips from the monotone as well as he grinds his teeth, clenches his hands to the point of pain, digging the nails into his skin.]
[Sagi looks up from the straw he was staring at, over at the closest table where a trainer is squinting suspiciously at them, then back down again. In his mind, it may as well be Milly's father ranting at him. Spittle flying. Blood flecking.
He shakes his head to clear the image away. He's still not here to get swept up in a moral debate, no matter how desperately Hythlo seems to want them.]
[Hythlo breathes out a shaky sigh and seems to deflate, falling back in his seat, bringing up his hands to cover his face.]
...Neither do I. Truly I don't, Sagi. I do not know whether what we did was wrong or right or if there even was anything to be done that could be right! I just--I just wish it never happened in the first place...
[His voice breaks again as he tries to choke back his tears.]
[Again, it's the kindest thing he can think of to say. Not for bringing it up, because he didn't, not this time. For every era in every world in every alternate dimension being cruel, he supposes.]
[Hythlo takes a deep breath, seems to get himself under control after a few more moments. He slowly raises himself back up, gives Sagi a tired, sad look.]
...Thank you, Sagi. For saying you don't know. [He looks away again, still breathing deeply.] We none of us know whether it was right, and in so many ways it was not. But 'twas a choice made, and one that we must needs carry the burden of. Wrong or right, it was ours.
[He hadn't really been conscious of himself slouching, but now he sits up, drawing his clasped hands a little closer to his side of the table - to his heart, just incidentally.]
I hope you find your way again, too.
[It's not quite a prayer in the same way as the one at the gravestone, but that doesn't make it not one.]
[Something about that--the fact not of acceptance, nor forgiveness as such, but a gift of hope and kindness instead, feels like it breaks some last barrier in Hythlo's heart. He nods, tearfully, a hand over his mouth to stop himself from completely breaking down once again. It's not entirely successful and he has to pull the hood over his face again to save Sagi the sight of more of his crying. It's shorter this time, at least, and it's maybe a few minutes before Hythlo allows himself to relax again and grab some tissues from the table to wipe his face.]
...Thank you, Sagi. I... want to find it too.
[He looks down still as he continues.]
I... envy your kind in a way. You are so much more used to pain and death. We are not. We... never knew how to deal with it. Mayhaps that was why... why we chose something like that.
[Yet again, Sagi doesn't try to interrupt Hythlo when he cries. He pushes the tissues a little ways across the table when it seems like Hythlo is starting to regain his composure, and that's about it. He still hasn't touched his drink.]
I don't know about that, either. Most people aren't. You either learn, or you never have to.
[In the corner of his mind, something wonders: what is his "kind" lately, anyway? He doesn't pay attention to it, since it isn't relevant.]
[Hythlo shakes his head. To him, the difference is obvious.]
Nay, what I mean is... You are surrounded by it from your very birth. A child will oft see his grandparents pass well before his own prime. Disease, accidents, mere overwork... There is so much besides forceful death. You... are so much more cognizant of it. You have to be. And deep down you know from such young age that you, too, shall expire one day. You do not even know what might wait for you on the other side. You are all...
[He looks down at his lap, the sadness in his voice rivaling that in Joss's expression.]
...so alone.
[The words come out as almost a whisper, but rather than pity, they sound very much like a child being unable to force reality, puzzled and hurt and scared.]
[Like the size of the ocean in Cassava, that's much too high a number for Sagi to have any context for, so he doesn't try. Still, it cements the hunch he got earlier - the vague feeling that something must have been horribly wrong with Hythlo's home, beyond Hythlo's own ability to affect or recognise. Otherwise, why would it have collapsed?]
Then it's no surprise you can't wrap your head around it. But... I don't think you actually have to.
...I wonder. That is to say... I doubt I could return to my world. There is nowhere to return anymore. I... must needs get used to the ways of this one.
Yeah, eventually. It doesn't have to be all at once. Doing what seems right in the moment, listening to people, moving forward - they're all things you can do without having to understand.
[Like him, is the part he doesn't say aloud for once. He's been going through the motions ever since he got here. Better than getting your heart stuck in one place. Anything is.]
So... if you don't understand yet, I think that's okay.
[Hythlo nods quietly, gives Sagi a small smile. Maybe moving forward bit by bit, as though blind, is all he's capable of right now. But maybe it won't be forever.]
...You may have the right of it, Sagi. 'Tis frightening, however, is it not? To realize that you are reduced to such a state when but a short while ago you were flying free, figuratively speaking. And now... there is naught for you to do but keep going for fear of stopping. For if you stop, you could not start again.
[He stares at the table again, his voice trailing off slightly at the end, as though he's not all there once more.]
[Even Sagi is learning to recognise that trailing off by now. He can't reach Hythlo from this side of the table for another hug or a pat on the arm, but he can reach Hythlo's hand to touch it lightly, and repeat himself.] It's okay.
[Unfortunately, nothing in the world can prevent Hythlodaeus from starting his morality-mortality-human-condition speeches. He gives Sagi an inquisitive look.]
Is it? I do not wish to be negative, of course, heavens know I've had much too much of that already... But it occurs to me what a peculiar phrase that is, and how we use it. Simply to reassure ourselves, not indicate that the situation is fine... We say that things are 'okay', but what we mean is that we are powerless to change them. We can but go along with them.
[At least he looks... thoughtful? Rather than unbearably sad? This seems to be general philosophizing.]
[Just as powerless as Sagi is to stop Hythlo from rambling. He smiles weakly.The similarity does not completely escape him.
Still, he sits back in his seat again. Hythlo seems to be less agitated after crying some more of it out of his system, which is good. One day he'll feel better. Sagi earnestly believes that.
...It would be a good idea to actually drink the milk tea they bought, huh. He takes the lid off the cup and contemplates the bubbles inside. Were they originally dried up? He can't tell.]
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no subject
Date: 2020-11-28 03:12 pm (UTC)When he does speak up, the words come out at least as flat as Hythlo's - but softly, because he deliberately reins them in.]
You killed them. And it didn't save you.
[He isn't judging. It isn't pointed. It wants to point, to bite - how twisted must this home of Hythlo's have been, that a multitude of people just like him would buy into all these justifications, would give up their lives for some cause that didn't even work? And he thinks someplace like that is less traumatic than anywhere else?
But no, something in his heart stops him. That isn't reasonable. Hythlo was alive in the wrong place at the wrong time. It clearly didn't leave him unaffected. Maybe he - like Sagi - just thought he saw a chance to start over here, that turned out not to be there.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 07:48 am (UTC)Not killed. Took them, yes. But not killed. Pray believe me when I say I know the difference. [His knuckles whiten as he clenches his hands.] And I would have gladly given my own life, had I been allowed to do so. But--
[He breaks off, shakes his head, tries to continue the explanation.]
It did save us. The rampages stopped. The life returned. But... we wanted to bring our brethren back. That was the point of involving those with the Sight, like myself. The cleaner the separation, the easier it is to restore the soul. That was... why we had to do it. Why I could not give my life. [He brings up a tired hand to his face to rub at his eyes, aware that he's getting sidetracked.] But that is not--not the point. What happened was that the decision many chose to agree with was waiting until enough life had sprung up, and then offer it to Zodiark again so that he might restore those who had given themselves to create him. Many disagreed. And thus... came the first conflict between our people. 'Twas in the aftermath of it that I died.
[Hythlodaeus is aware that he left out many details, but at the same time he feels so utterly drained just trying to talk about it. He falls silent again, staring at nothing, waiting for Sagi's judgement without fear. Whatever it might be, it can't be worse than what he's been subjecting himself to every time he allowed his thoughts to wander back to the past.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 08:25 am (UTC)Something must have been rotten under the surface for a long time, for that to be the first.
[And Hythlo thought that place was somehow different from everywhere else in a non-geographical sense. Why?
...]
What did you "decide"?
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 01:21 pm (UTC)Before I answer... can you tell me what you mean by rotten?
[Depending on what Sagi says, Hythlo might agree with him.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 02:09 pm (UTC)[Sagi doesn't look up, but nor does he skip a beat. His attempt at keeping his tone of voice dispassionate definitely slips here. It's personal. Not to him, just to someone very close.]
It doesn't matter what the cause is.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 02:23 pm (UTC)Deluding, you say. Aye, I daresay the people of this world would have needed to deceive each other to achieve something. Every life, every life offered was given willingly, do you understand? We truly believed this would be our salvation, and it was. What would you have had us done? Look for another solution? While our cities burned, while our children died? You would have had us face our people and tell them we had no morally simple solution, please sit back and watch each other be devoured by the monsters of the Final Days?!
[Hythlo's own voice slips from the monotone as well as he grinds his teeth, clenches his hands to the point of pain, digging the nails into his skin.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 02:51 pm (UTC)He shakes his head to clear the image away. He's still not here to get swept up in a moral debate, no matter how desperately Hythlo seems to want them.]
I don't know. I honestly don't know.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 02:58 pm (UTC)...Neither do I. Truly I don't, Sagi. I do not know whether what we did was wrong or right or if there even was anything to be done that could be right! I just--I just wish it never happened in the first place...
[His voice breaks again as he tries to choke back his tears.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 03:14 pm (UTC)[Again, it's the kindest thing he can think of to say. Not for bringing it up, because he didn't, not this time. For every era in every world in every alternate dimension being cruel, he supposes.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 03:23 pm (UTC)[Hythlo takes a deep breath, seems to get himself under control after a few more moments. He slowly raises himself back up, gives Sagi a tired, sad look.]
...Thank you, Sagi. For saying you don't know. [He looks away again, still breathing deeply.] We none of us know whether it was right, and in so many ways it was not. But 'twas a choice made, and one that we must needs carry the burden of. Wrong or right, it was ours.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 03:38 pm (UTC)[He hadn't really been conscious of himself slouching, but now he sits up, drawing his clasped hands a little closer to his side of the table - to his heart, just incidentally.]
I hope you find your way again, too.
[It's not quite a prayer in the same way as the one at the gravestone, but that doesn't make it not one.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 03:52 pm (UTC)...Thank you, Sagi. I... want to find it too.
[He looks down still as he continues.]
I... envy your kind in a way. You are so much more used to pain and death. We are not. We... never knew how to deal with it. Mayhaps that was why... why we chose something like that.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-29 07:46 pm (UTC)I don't know about that, either. Most people aren't. You either learn, or you never have to.
[In the corner of his mind, something wonders: what is his "kind" lately, anyway? He doesn't pay attention to it, since it isn't relevant.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-30 06:56 am (UTC)Nay, what I mean is... You are surrounded by it from your very birth. A child will oft see his grandparents pass well before his own prime. Disease, accidents, mere overwork... There is so much besides forceful death. You... are so much more cognizant of it. You have to be. And deep down you know from such young age that you, too, shall expire one day. You do not even know what might wait for you on the other side. You are all...
[He looks down at his lap, the sadness in his voice rivaling that in Joss's expression.]
...so alone.
[The words come out as almost a whisper, but rather than pity, they sound very much like a child being unable to force reality, puzzled and hurt and scared.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-30 07:30 am (UTC)How old are you, anyway?
[About five years old in some ways, but it's only just occurring to him that he didn't ask about the literal sense.]
no subject
Date: 2020-11-30 07:31 am (UTC)Twenty-eight. Er... hundred, that is.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-30 07:55 am (UTC)[Like the size of the ocean in Cassava, that's much too high a number for Sagi to have any context for, so he doesn't try. Still, it cements the hunch he got earlier - the vague feeling that something must have been horribly wrong with Hythlo's home, beyond Hythlo's own ability to affect or recognise. Otherwise, why would it have collapsed?]
Then it's no surprise you can't wrap your head around it. But... I don't think you actually have to.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-30 03:45 pm (UTC)...I wonder. That is to say... I doubt I could return to my world. There is nowhere to return anymore. I... must needs get used to the ways of this one.
no subject
Date: 2020-11-30 04:24 pm (UTC)[Like him, is the part he doesn't say aloud for once. He's been going through the motions ever since he got here. Better than getting your heart stuck in one place. Anything is.]
So... if you don't understand yet, I think that's okay.
no subject
Date: 2020-12-01 01:08 pm (UTC)...You may have the right of it, Sagi. 'Tis frightening, however, is it not? To realize that you are reduced to such a state when but a short while ago you were flying free, figuratively speaking. And now... there is naught for you to do but keep going for fear of stopping. For if you stop, you could not start again.
[He stares at the table again, his voice trailing off slightly at the end, as though he's not all there once more.]
no subject
Date: 2020-12-01 01:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-12-01 01:35 pm (UTC)Is it? I do not wish to be negative, of course, heavens know I've had much too much of that already... But it occurs to me what a peculiar phrase that is, and how we use it. Simply to reassure ourselves, not indicate that the situation is fine... We say that things are 'okay', but what we mean is that we are powerless to change them. We can but go along with them.
[At least he looks... thoughtful? Rather than unbearably sad? This seems to be general philosophizing.]
no subject
Date: 2020-12-01 01:45 pm (UTC)[Just as powerless as Sagi is to stop Hythlo from rambling. He smiles weakly.The similarity does not completely escape him.
Still, he sits back in his seat again. Hythlo seems to be less agitated after crying some more of it out of his system, which is good. One day he'll feel better. Sagi earnestly believes that.
...It would be a good idea to actually drink the milk tea they bought, huh. He takes the lid off the cup and contemplates the bubbles inside. Were they originally dried up? He can't tell.]